Martha Argerich
Excerpts from “The Mercurial Martha Argerich”
Clavier Magazine/September 1979, from an interview
with Dean Elder
An interview with Martha Argerich is
an exploration of a woman who loves to laugh
and who yearns for the verdant and azure
spaces of a more natural life.
On how her interest in music started
I was at the kindergarten in a competitive
program when I was two years and eight months.
I was much younger than the rest of the
children. I had a little friend who was
always teasing me; he was five and was always
telling me, "You can't do this, you can't
do that." And I would always do whatever
he said I couldn't. Once he got the idea
of telling me I couldn't play the piano.
(Laughter) That's how it started. I still
remember it. I immediately got up, went
to the piano, and started playing a tune
that the teacher was playing all the time.
I played the tune by ear and perfectly.
The teacher immediately called my mother
and they started making a fuss. And it was
all because of this boy who said, "You can't
play the piano."
Asked if she was forced to practice
Later, yes I was and I hated it. I didn't
want to be a pianist in the first place.
I still don't really want to be, but it
is the only thing that I can do more or
less. (Laughter) I wanted to be a doctor!
I love very much to play the piano, but
I don't like to be a pianist. I don't like
the profession. And when one plays, of course,
it is important to practice. But the profession
itself - the traveling and the way of life
- all this has nothing to do with playing
or with music, absolutely nothing! This
is what I do not enjoy about being a concert
pianist. You never know when you are very
young, when you are studying, what this
profession is about. No one tells you, and
the people outside the profession don't
have a clue. They think it is marvelous.
On whether it's harder for a woman than
a man
I suppose, but it is complicated for me
because I had the type of teacher and parents
who used to tell me when I was a little
girl that my fiancé was the piano. I didn't
have much freedom as a child.
On being told her "fiancé" was the piano
And isn't that terrible! (Laughter) My teacher
used to tell me this to hypnotize me I suppose
- I don't now what. I hate this type of
reasoning, this idea of being high priestess
or something. I don't like this attitude
in life, generally. I would never do that
with a child of mine.
On playing difficult concerts when she
was 8
How do you know about this? I played the
Mozart D minor Concerto (isn't that funny,
all the Wunderkinder play that and it is
one of the most difficult in certain respects)
and the first Beethoven Concerto and the
Bach G major French Suite in between. But
I heard a tape the other day of a concert
of mine, of the Schumann concerto when I
was 11 and of that Mozart Concerto when
I was nine. It's a very distorted tape,
but I was touched because, my God, pianistically,
it is absolutely amazing. I mean, I don't
understand how I did those things. I just
brought this tape back to my mother. It
had been in a deposit box in Switzerland
for ten years.
On Gieseking telling her parents to leave
her in peace when he noticed she seemed,
at age 8, to feel forced to practice
I played the last movement of Beethoven's
Sonata in E-flat op. 31 no. 3, and probably
he could notice that I was not enjoying
the situation very much. I was glad he told
them because that was what I wanted. But
they didn't take his advice. It was very
difficult I suppose for them to understand.
I used to do horrible things to myself in
order not to play. I was told if you soaked
blotter paper in water and put it in your
shoes, you would get fever, so I would hide
in the bathroom and put water in my shoes.
And I used to hide under the table at soirees
instead of meeting people. Daniel Barenboim
was at those musical evenings too, but he
enjoyed playing for those people very much;
I hated it. We used to meet under the table
when I was hiding there.
Elder finds this interesting, "because
you have a magnetism when you walk out on
stage that goes out to people."
You think so?
Yes, and an artist either has it or doesn't.
Elder mentions that Gieseking, loved playing
the piano and couldn't stay away from it
and could talk about little else.
Really? Well, some people do. Nelson likes
to play the piano quite a lot, more than
I do. I have long periods without touching
the piano, and I don't miss it. And then
I can get possessed by the piano for a while
as well. But I enjoy completely different
things like going for walks, talking with
people, non-musicians, and being in a completely
different atmosphere. When you have been
all your life put into a frame of being
a pianist, of being a musician in spite
of yourself, it is unfair for the rest of
your personality. You have something else
you want to express. It looks theoretical
in my case, but I try. I don't know if I
succeed, but I hope to be able to express
myself otherwise too.
On reports that Arrau, Solomon, Szigeti,
Francescatti, and Von Beinem had heard her
play
Szigeti was very touching. I played for
him when I was 12, and he wrote me a letter
from the plane. Then I met him again when
I was 17 in Genoa and I played some sonatas
with him. It was about the first time I
had any chamber music experience. I was
terrified because I had to sight-read. I
didn't know the music. And I was so touched
because he went into another room to warm
up for 20 or 30 minutes before starting
to play with me. I was a 17-year-old with
no experience. I mean who was I? I was just
nothing, you know. It was incredible!
Elder mentions Vincenzo Scaramuzza
He was an extraordinary teacher I suppose,
but I didn't do many of the things he told
me. I was hearing other people tell me how
to practice. He would tell me what to do,
and I would do what the other people told
me. I studied with him from age five to
ten in Argentina.
Dean Elder noticed she played Friedrich
Gulda's cadenza to the Mozart Concerto in
C, K. 503
Gulda was my first teacher outside Argentina.
He is fantastic. I love him. I believe he
is one of the most talented people I have
ever met. For me, playing for him was a
fantastic experience.
On remembering what she especially learned
from him
Oh, all kinds of things. A lot of Debussy
and Ravel. Isn't that funny? And Bach quite
a lot too. I was with him one year and a
half. He used to record the lesson. And
after, he wanted me to listen with him,
to criticize my own things, you see? This
was very interesting because it was very
democratic. He liked to know what I had
to say, what I thought. It was not this
thing that usually happens between pupil
and teacher. It was fantastic. I learned
a lot with him. Sometimes he would challenge
me because I would be lazy. I wouldn't work
and learn fast enough. I was going through
a sort of mystic crisis about God, whether
I believed in God and the immortal soul.
It was complicated. I used to arrive late
at every lesson and start talking about
this with him. I was so worried and he had
to answer, and at the same time he knew
I was doing this because I hadn't prepared.
On Gulda fearing she was an underachiver
when she was a month with a Schubert Sonata
"For your next lesson, five days from now,
you have to bring me all of Ravel's 'Gaspard
de la nuit' and Schumann's 'Abegg Variations.'"
All right, so I brought them all learned;
it was not difficult because I didn't know
that it was supposed to be. When one doesn't
know that a piece is very difficult, one
learns it easily. If you know already from
everybody that this piece is difficult,
then you don't learn it fast. I didn't know
this, so I learned these pieces fast, and
he was very happy about it.
Elder spoke to Nikita Magaloff at the
1977 Cliburn Competition in Ft. Worth and
asked him what he taught her What did he
say?
"Oh, she could already play everything.
But I worry when she cancels concerts."
He always says that to me.
On how she learned the Prokofiev 3rd
initially
Well, I was rooming with a girl who used
to practice it while I was asleep in the
mornings. We had only this one room. Somehow
this music came subconsciously into my mind,
even with the wrong notes she was playing.
I noticed I knew it when I started to play
it.
And you learned the wrong notes that she
played?
Yes, I did. (Laughter) She was practicing
the difficult parts and had these problems.
. .
On Michelangeli as teacher
Well, I was one year and a half with him,
and I had four lessons. It's not much. Once
he said to David Ruben from Steinway, "Oh,
I've done a lot for that girl." And David
said, "But Maestro I know that you gave
her only four lessons." And he said, "Yes,
but I taught her the music of silence."
It's all very mysterious. (Laughter)
On duo piano partner Nelson Freire
Nelson has the greatest facility I have
ever seen. He can sight-read like I've never
seen in my life except for Gulda. Nelson
is always looking for new things to play
or to read. He is one who enjoys playing
the piano as you were saying, like Gieseking,
not like me. I have a conflict.
On pianistic idols, Elder naming Horowitz
and Rachmaninov
I love them, but not only them. I love Gieseking
and Cortot too. I like Schnabel, Glenn Gould
- a lot of people. Of the older people,
Cortot is quite important for me. Even Backhaus
had some things I used to love. His recording
of the Beethoven Third Concerto with Boehm
is fantastic ...
On hearing, with Nelson Freire in January
1978, Horowitz's first appearance with an
orchestra in 25 years, and her response
to his Rachmaninoff 3rd performance
It was the first time I heard him in the
flesh, you know. It was an incredible shock
for me because it was more Horowitz than
what I thought Horowitz was. Nelson and
I were sitting there holding hands, tense.
The strength of his expression, the sound,
and this incredible violence he has inside
which is so strange, weird, and frightening.
That he can express it. He's like possessed.
I've read about this, but this was the first
time that I saw on stage someone who has
that!
On the Liszt Sonata in B minor, Elder
tells her, “I think your recording has tremendous
architectural sweep from the first note
to the last, fantastic emotional and technical
drive, with contrasting affecting Iyricism,”
and asks Argerich her ideas about this work
I don't like to listen to it, not played
by me, not played by anybody. Isn't that
funny? I get very impatient. There is something
that bothers me about it, not because Ive
heard it too much. On the other hand, I
am very interested in what Cortot says about
"the dispute of conscience which fills Faust's
tormented soul in his search for truth,"
in reference to the passages of Goethe's
Faust that inspired Liszt's Sonata. Some
people hate what Cortot wrote in his edition,
but I think it opens up a lot of horizons
like his playing did too. I don't believe
that it works for everything. But for me,
yes, for some things it does and well. What
Cortot wrote seems very important.
On possibly making a recording of Scarlatti
sonatas
Well, no, I can't. I have a horror of all
those little trills. You see, little trills
are my horrible obsession, and most of Scarlatti
is full of them. Long, fast trills go all
right, but the little ones - they are for
me the horror - you know, sometimes I get
stuck. I don't lift my fingers enough. It's
like stuttering if I'm not in shape. Let's
say I'm sight-reading something, and there
are some little trills. Then they go. But
the moment I know in advance that I have
to do them, then ugh! It's terrible.
On her feelings in 1964 ("just before
the 1965 Chopin Competition" which she won)
when she attended the Brussels competition
but couldn't enter that particular competition
The night before the competition I said
to myself, "Well, now, Martha, it is over
for you. You have been a pianist but now
you are not. You cannot play, so what kind
of a pianist are you? You know some languages;
you must start to earn your livelihood as
a secretary."
On Stefan Askenase's wife's influence
I had been away from the piano for about
three years ... I was one year here in New
York, and all I did was watch television.
. . . She had something very special, like
a sun. She gave me strength and security.
I started to believe again that I could,
and little by little I started to play --
very bad, wrong notes all over the place,
and I couldn't stand it. I was thinking,
"What is the matter with me?" I went on
and on like this. Because of her I started
to play again, and almost immediately I
went to the Chopin Competition. It was because
of her. Otherwise, I couldn't have done
it.
On her interpretive goal
I think interpretation is trying to liberate
what one is unconscious about. When one
can let go some things one doesnt know are
there - the unexpected things and the surprises
in the performance - that's when its worthwhile.
This is also what I appreciate in other
performers. When they are masters of their
means of expression, this does not exactly
interest me. That interests me in a teacher,
but in a performer I am interested in what
happens behind or in spite of the things
the performer consciously wants to do. Maybe
I am a little bit of a voyeur, you know,
that way. But this is what I love.
© 1979 The Instrumentalist Company |
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